Let's see how much support the "left" has really got
I do hope Clare Short carries out her petulent threat that the left will stand in the Labour leadership contest, in protest at Brown's commonsense stance on Trident:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolitics/story/0,,1803892,00.html
Then we will be able to expose exactly how marginal their support is amongst ordinary Labour members and trade unionists.
My hunch is that a left candidate for leader would do about as well as Heffer did in 1983 (6%) or Benn in in 1988 (11%) - http://www.election.demon.co.uk/lableader.html
By the way, on checking the '83 result I've realised that my post below incorrectly names Meacher as the Bennite candidate for Leader then - in fact he ran for Deputy.
posted by Luke Akehurst at 7:55 am
19 Comments:
I think the left could possibly win the vote of the membership if they run someone suitably sensible.
10:39 am, June 23, 2006
Clare Short has always backed the loser in every leadership and deputy leadership contest she took part. So it's good for Gordon not to have her support.
10:42 am, June 23, 2006
Adele I really doubt that. First off, the recent Yougov poll showed 54% of members self define as "slightly left of centre" or "centre" - secondly even those to the left of that can see Brown is a credible future PM and hopefully general election winner in a way that no one to the left of him is. Blair got over 60% of the members' votes in 1994 against Beckett & Prescott and the relative balance of opinion has if anything shifted further to the right as leftwingers have quit the party and been replaced by younger moderates. My MP Diane Abbott has commented at a party meeting that most of the new young activists coming into the party are moderates.
My hunch is that Brown's current rash of policy clarifications are designed to reassure Blairites so that Alan Johnson concentrates on a strong run for Deputy Leader rather than Leader.
11:21 am, June 23, 2006
Just as an aside I think alan johnson shud run. He'd get the centrist vote as well as sum of the left due to his trade union background. I'd vote 4 him over Gordon any day.
1:25 pm, June 23, 2006
I love the way that people online seems to think chucking in a few insults about their antagonists' physical appearance is a good way to win an argument - in this case the fact that I have "a red face"... ginger hair, glasses and being short should all be fair game too. The point about a deterrent is that it never gets used.
12:02 pm, June 27, 2006
I can understand (though not agree with) people who say we should not have gone to Iraq in the first place but are you seriously suggesting it would be morally justifiable to pull UK troops out of either country now? In both cases they are peace-keeping rather than war-fighting and in both cases the country concerned lacks the police or army of its own to stop a slide into anarchy/civil war. UK forces in Iraq are there as part with a mandate from the United Nations, set out in United Nations Security Council Resolution 1637, which extended the mandate of the Multi-National Force in Iraq (MNF-I) until 31 December 2006. This was at the formal request of the Iraqi Government. In Afghanistan the ISAF is there under UN resolutions and basically working for the Afghan government. A good background explanation of the concept of detterence is here: http://www.rusi.org/downloads/pub_j/Willett.pdf
Spending on defence isn't a rival to spending on health or education. Like paying for a policeforce it creates the secure country you need before you can invest in domestic issues.
2:20 pm, June 27, 2006
Yes but we won. If you are in the majority why didn't you prove it by kicking Labour out in the General Election? If there is one thing NOLS taught me it was to have utter, searing contempt for people who pepper their views on foreign policy with 19th century drivel about "capitalism and imperialism" or talk about "blood on the hands" of supporters of the West and its liberal, democratic values whilst categorising some of the world's most ghastly dictatorships and bloody revolutions as positive developments. Oh and by the way I support Israel as well ... just to give you something else to hate.
2:53 pm, June 27, 2006
For nobody's benefit in particular, can I say that I'm deeply embarrassed to be associated with Luke's views. On the occupation, the left within his own party, Israel, and defence spending. How anyone can straight-faced deny as link between social spending and defence spending, as if in some way there are seperately defined pots of money, is beyond me. Our Party Leader is according to the opinion polls, just 1% more popular with the people than Thatcher at the time of the poll tax riots. The Deputy Leader has been involved in sexual conduct which would have seen him dismissed from any post in the ODPM... apart from the position of DPM apparently. If you cannot see the croneyism and deeply entrenched sleaze at the highest levels in Government, then go back to Hackney and prepare for another 17 years in opposition, because that is where these people are taking our party. But no doubt, when that happens, the right will drag out all of the usual excuses... and blame the left for their own abject failures.
10:24 pm, June 28, 2006
I'll try not to rant for too long.
Its was probably my once very pro Israel stance that led me to support the Iraq war. I then thought, bloody hell we are making a right hash of this. However, as Luke says we need to stay in until the job is done and stand in solidarity with the trade unions in Iraq.
Like Luke says yeah I oppose the massive hypocrisy of the anti war left that associate themselves with some of the most brutal, vicious, murderous regimes abroad all in the name of anti imperialism.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I have been a big supporter of Israel and much of what it stands for. However after they advanced into Gaza last night and put that country through hell and why because they are a democracy and Hamas are a bunch of militants. Don't give me that crap. Also a mate of a mate was shot by the IDF totally indiscriminately.
11:07 pm, June 28, 2006
Oh yeah and everyone that goes though NOLS is a naked careerist. For fucks sake. Yeah, thats why we opposed the Government on top up fees and still do. Thats why we are going to give them hell over lufting the cap.
Its just students that are labour party members. I'm not new or old labour. Just labour.
11:12 pm, June 28, 2006
Right you quite clearly read nothing that I actualy said about Israel.
The USA, is a democratic country where its citizens enjoy both freedom and rule of law. If you think it is a brutal and vicious regime then you are being paranoid.
Just as an add on. Do you expect the UK not to have a positive relationahip with the US. It is the most powerful economy in the world.
It is not a regime but a democratically elected Government. Something that the people of Iraq now have.
10:12 am, June 29, 2006
What on earth are you on about.
NOLS are not affiliated to the Labour Party. We support the Government because after 18 years in opposition and not being able to influence anything we saw a chance to make a difference.
And yes we did oppose top up fees and still do. I seem to remember the Government came to within 3 votes of defeat.
Well I disagree fundamentally with top up fees because I think it ounishes working class kids. However, you can have your free education. I was proud of the moment when NOLS had the courage to stand up and argue for targeted grants. Why should someone on minimum wage contribute the same to their education as someone that went to Eton??
Why did I join the labour party. Because I saw it as our best hope of a better society and I still believe that today. I'm not happy with the direction some things have taken. However, go into some communities in Manchester like Wythenshawe, Harpurhey. See, sure start, see the rfegeneration, see what the labour council has done to give hope to that city.
What people like you wanted to do with the labour party would have kept us out of power for another 18 years and I'm glad we never went down that root.
Oh and as a lecturer. Your hardly 'working class'.
10:22 am, June 29, 2006
I would imagine that in order to give more kids the opportunity to go to university then some people will have to pay for their education. NB if your parents don't earn enough then you dont have to pay those fees.
Well, I supported the lecturers over their claims for better pay but I'd give nurses, teachers, doctors a pay rise any day. Lecturers are not working class, they are not on the poverty line. There are so many other public sector workers that are more deserving of a pay rise.
In terms of what Gordon has said. We can't let the public sector get so bloated or we fail the people we are trying to help and unemployment will start to escalate.
12:00 pm, June 29, 2006
Ooh thank God I don't have to sit in a closet with you lot! You'd do my head in!
6:27 pm, June 29, 2006
Bob Piper - if you are "deeply embarrassed to be associated" with my views you must find it a joy to have Labour First stalwarts John Spellar as your MP and Bill Thomas as your council leader.
11:21 am, June 30, 2006
Bill Thomas who is running for the NEC this year
2:46 pm, June 30, 2006
When you guys finally put your handbags down, you will come to realise that Tony Blair is the one and only reason for the mass conversion to labour.
The day you get rid of Tony will be the beginning of the House of Cameron.
Double or nothing on the latte & doughnut Luke?
3:09 pm, June 30, 2006
Yep double or quits.
3:12 pm, June 30, 2006
Well Blair is losing us support at the moment so I very much doubt the comment kris has just made.
6:25 pm, June 30, 2006
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