We need unity, not disarray
A busy day, so rather than write something myself, here's a link to John Spellar's take on the situation, which I agree with.
I was sorry to see another friend of mine, David Cairns, resign, though I have to say I had taken this as a given ever since Siobhain's resignation on Friday, just as I had Joan Ryan's, given the political links between them. I still think they are all wrong. And I don't think they represent majority - or even substantial minority - opinion in the Party.
posted by Luke Akehurst at 5:26 pm
50 Comments:
What I do not understand is why they have to do it before the conference? It is sabotage of any chance of recovery.
Is it John Reid?
5:45 pm, September 16, 2008
Sorry Luke but the genie of disarray is well and truly out of the bottle now.
There is a momentum behind events now that has created a narrative that will not be changed. No number of barn-storming conference performances will stop it from continuing.
These things are, unfortunately, very corrosive. But there is a sense of inevitability now. That will be hard to break.
5:45 pm, September 16, 2008
From a somewhat different perspective I have some sympathies with your position:
http://historysrevenge.blogspot.com/2008/09/very-blairite-coup.html
5:57 pm, September 16, 2008
I think we will recover. The PM is made of strong stuff. He won't quit.
We need to keep a strong intelligent leader to deal with the recession.
If this is rebelion is organised by John Reid he is mad. I have just read a few stories on him and I find it unlikely he would be able to lead a party against an extreme strong tory party.
6:04 pm, September 16, 2008
Any more givens you want to tell us about?
6:07 pm, September 16, 2008
Guido is a gibbon
6:09 pm, September 16, 2008
Is this anything to do with Linda working for mucho macho John?
6:43 pm, September 16, 2008
It woudl be nice to be able to test whether they represented majority, or significant minority, position in the party or at least the PLP .... but that's been stamped on! However, I'm audacious enough to suggest that it forms majority opinion in the country - see the politicshome.com PH5000 for their verdict. Most notably, just over 2/3rds of non-aligned (floating?) voters think that Siobhain, Joan, David and all the others are doing teh right thing. There are times when National Interest over-rides party interest and this is definitely one of them. I'm surprised that someone as, usually, astute as yourself can't see that.
6:48 pm, September 16, 2008
Does either the pro or anti-Brown faction have any aim other then keeping hold of power at any cost?
7:20 pm, September 16, 2008
I still think they are all wrong. And I don't think they represent majority - or even substantial minority - opinion in the Party.
You're kidding, right?! I've not met one single member of the party who believes the coward should remain in charge, Left, Right or far-Left - including some who absolutely loathed Blair and were kissing Gordon's arse this time last year.
It's over. Take a look at Gary Gibbon's excellent report on this evening's Channel Four News for proof.
You gotta hand it to her, Harriet Harman - probably the most annoying woman in Britain - is an excellent liar!
8:39 pm, September 16, 2008
Go bak to where you came from. You Sikhs, your all ungratefull bastards.
Why dont you go and marry tony bliar
8:55 pm, September 16, 2008
I think it may be fair to say that many in the party, and Labour voters, don't see any easy alternative.
But I hardly know of anyone who is happy and content with Brown's leadership. Political views aside, he just doesn't inspire or give the lift much-needed in these times. Blasir, for all his faults, could have done so.
However, current problems are being caused by market failure - shame that we have three main parties all of whom salivate at the thought of the free market. I won't be vo9ting for any of them next time.
9:08 pm, September 16, 2008
I did not put the comment at 8:55 PM, September 16, 2008 making that blatantly racist a comment about sikhs. I would never tell sikhs or any other ethincs to go back to where they came from. I am an ethic of a sort myself. I know sikhs are mainly from the punjab. But why the fuck would i tell them to go back there. Many of them aren't even from there.
This is Shamik or some other nutter playing mad games the guy is an idiot.
This is fucking mad.
9:20 pm, September 16, 2008
Shamik if you do that again I can do the same for you So it is not clever Anyone can play that game. I did not tell shamik to go back where he is from. I do not know what place his ethnic group is from anyway. I know skihs are from the Punjab in the main but many are from other places like jewish people and christians they are not all from the same bloody place.
9:22 pm, September 16, 2008
Shut up whitey. Blair was great He killed all those muslims. Yeahhhh.
9:34 pm, September 16, 2008
At times like these it is better to play safe and keep out of trouble, as New Labour built itself up on good capitalism, the politics of opportunity and not of envy - cue a continuation of Thatcherite economic ideals with more fairness for everyone in trying to get the best out of that system.
But with that very system in trouble, much of it still undisclosed, it is very difficult if not impossible to build a positive vision as a party in government, so trying to force a new leader for a newer Labour in order to save backbencher seats is pretty vain.
Hang in there and rely on delegated leadership, the main theme for New Labour should be: ethical banking and financial systems. Be all over this like a rash.
Use what is left of that Atlanticist relationship, salute the party for good ideas and go down with Gordon Brown with dignity!
We salute you New Labour.
9:40 pm, September 16, 2008
Pssst it's UBS Warburg next
9:46 pm, September 16, 2008
I do not even know who UBS are? Someone is doing this again why?
10:04 pm, September 16, 2008
Luke - I wonder if you might have to get rid of anonymous comments. People pretending to be other commenters is pretty bad. There's obviously someone pretending to be 'Dirty Euro' and Shamik on this thread - and coming out with racist stuff at that.
10:12 pm, September 16, 2008
thank you duncan hall. I did not make the racist comment about sikhs.
I also did not make the comments about UBS. I just looked up UBS now on wikipedia it is a Swiss bank.
Maybe it was not Samik, after all. It must be someone interested in the banking collapses. I apologise to Samik if he was not the one pretending to be me.
It is not that important to me I will just point which posts are me and which ones are someone making comments that are not me.
10:22 pm, September 16, 2008
While the economy burns Labour go into meltdown.....not what I would call reliable workers.
Sack the lot of them and start again. Time for a vote of no confidence.
10:37 pm, September 16, 2008
Oh deary deary me, what a mighty mess. I really thought nothing else could go wrong....Brown must have done some bad things for all this karma.
I think he'll regret saying "No more boom and bust" or "We are best set to weather the Storm" or even "UK is best set to take on the NEW WORLD ORDER".
10:42 pm, September 16, 2008
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Luke. I'd add that, even if there were a candidate to run against Brown, toppling him would simply damage our prospects of winning the next election.
xD.
10:45 pm, September 16, 2008
Luke - I only suggest this with a degree of trepidation and timidity, and am prepared for the reciprocal onslaught, but... When you mention the political connections between some of the 'plotters' - would one of the key ones be having been key supporters of Hazel Blears' deputy leadership election?
Of course I'm not suggesting for a moment that Hazel herself has anything to do with it, but will you maybe have to prepare yourself for a few more chums joining this motley crue?
10:49 pm, September 16, 2008
Dave Cole, "toppling him would simply damage our prospects of winning the next election"
excuse me while I choke on my digestive biscuits. A win now is out of the question....it is now damage limitation. The Torys would have to do something diasteriously wrong now not to win..
Brown can not beat Cameron, the last few months has proven that. Blair may of had a chance but Brown no chance.
11:05 pm, September 16, 2008
Even if NLP did win the election again-whats in it for the workers-so far we have been short changed and have had 11 years of NLP. NLP keep blaming what happened between 1979-1997, But what happened between 1997 to 2008? It feels like we have not had a break from the neo free market anti working class policies, introduced in 1979 to end the mixed economy-despite having an LP government elected.
12:43 am, September 17, 2008
Labourhome is picking up on letter from a group of Labour council leaders in support of the PM.
http://www.labourhome.org/story/2008/9/17/54358/2519
10:51 am, September 17, 2008
I did not put the comment at 10:22 PM, September 16, 2008. Someone is doing this again why? This is fucking mad. It is important to me so I will point which posts are me and which ones are someone making comments that are not me. This is some nutter playing mad games the guy is an idiot.
3:01 pm, September 17, 2008
Dirty Euro why don't you just get a blogger password, then it will be clear it's you, because your username will be highlighted in blue.
3:11 pm, September 17, 2008
Who made that comment at 3.01pm? This is getting ridiclous. Shamik is the one wit the mental helth issue not me. Grow up you creep
5:02 pm, September 17, 2008
Vote Insanity!
You know it makes sense
6:12 pm, September 17, 2008
I'm so glad I've got an MOD pension as anyone with a private pension is going to be screwed.
So while everything goes Pete Tong our loyal servants argue about who should be leader and the rest of us get screwed over by over paid speculators (gamblers).
What an sad day for the whole country and the British political system.
Yesterday I visited a factory in the midlands. The owners and all his sons drive personalized Bentley Phantoms, each costing in excess of £250,000. Yet all of his workers earn just the min wage and he boasted that fact. I was after a contract but was put off by the way in which he kept his premise and the condition of his staff.....if he screws his staff he'll try to screw me. Feeling cocky I asked him why he didn't pay his staff more, he replied " I can't afford to". I didn't get the contract but who cares.
When Labour took power I honestly thought that they would do something to tackle this sort of abuse. Surely Labour should be looking at taxation, the rich do need to pay more, while those on low incomes need to pay a lot less.
Labour have lost their roots....lost the plot.
9:24 pm, September 17, 2008
That's the kernel of Labour's problem, where to next: do they stay centre ground, centre-left. If it is to remain operable in England it would need to keep the ground its gotten hold of but the groundsman has gone - Tony Blair.
I think it highlights the point about change either political ideological change and or change of leader. With Brown and Blair not speaking to each other was there any sort of handover, as like an old employee to new, bet there wasn't? The vision is mangled as a result of that. Now Labour are regretting a shift away from the magic Blairism formula of hard spin to get the right message out after all.
The debate is far too fast on leadership change and too slow on alternative pathways. Somebody somewhere should say to Gordon, alternatives now and face the Glenrothes bye and see how it goes. But now, concurrently Labour should be working for alternatives and not change just yet.
There is something durable still in New Labour but looking back on its term it hasn't so much been political but managerial . As is the case now.
9:42 pm, September 17, 2008
If anyone wants to see how well a disunited centre-left party fares in an election against a right wing party with not much to offer, just look at the Canadian General Election...
10:36 pm, September 17, 2008
They're probably watching me. Well, let them. Let them see what kind of a person I am. I'm not even going to swat that fly. I hope they are watching... they'll see. They'll see and they'll know, and they'll say, "Why, she wouldn't even harm a fly..."
11:37 pm, September 17, 2008
Who made that comments at 11:37 PM, September 17, 2008? This is getting ridiclous. This is my blog. I am not a fly and on medicasion anyways and have certificasion to shew I am sane. So yuo imitatars are mental and can go screew yourslefs.
5:56 am, September 18, 2008
They may not represent majority 'opinion' but they represent the majority of people feeling bloody nervous about Labour at the next election.
10:03 am, September 18, 2008
I'm so glad I've got an MOD pension as anyone with a private pension is going to be screwed
You might find that sacrificing that pension is adopted by Labour as an acceptable tactic to winning back Mr Daily Mail's vote. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next Tory government attack public sector pensions to bring them in line with the worst of the private sector.
10:53 am, September 18, 2008
Your all rong. Alastar darling was brillint on the tele this morning.
Stop givimg amunishon to coacaine torise
11:00 am, September 18, 2008
It was not the real dirty euro at 11:am , 5:56, 6:12, 5:02.
It is OK jdc. If someone wants to pretend to be me it does not bother me that someone wants to pretend to be me. I am sure you and anyone ele can work out when it is someone pretendting be me or not. If they say anyting illegal then it is not be my ISP tracked. If they make a joke about my comments. I am big enough to take it. I will take it as a compliment they are going after me.
Anyway I agree with his last compliment. So he must be switching sides. LOL. He has been folled by his own games.:
2:44 pm, September 18, 2008
The last time the tories were on 52% they lost their leader two years later and the tories have never recovered.
2:59 pm, September 18, 2008
Despite the rather juvenile dig at us in the left, Spellar is right to say we should have unity.
Whilst Gordon is in charge he should have our support, after all if we get rid of him, who of the empty suits would fill in the vacuum?
He maybe a ditherer and politically over cautious but I think there is more to Brown than his detractors think.
Personally I think he is an infinitely better man than Blair. He is intelligent and is well read; mind you I am reminded of the inhabitants of Laputa in Gulliver’s travels (so smart yet so stupid).
I only wish he could rediscover his Crosland sympathies and bring out the true moderate voice in the party. Sadly his involvement with "The Project" has left him perilously without vision and direction.
5:37 pm, September 18, 2008
I watched a programme the other night about Star Wars and I couldn’t help but notice the similarity of Anthony Daniels (C-3PO) and Alistair Darling, just those freaky eyebrows........
5:43 pm, September 18, 2008
Brown is a historian and belongs in a library or a university. A academic at best....not a PM
9:08 pm, September 18, 2008
Whilst Gordon is in charge he should have our support
Yeah, just like you supported his predecessor!
Personally I think he is an infinitely better man than Blair.
Please.
Praise from people like you, dirty euro and Dianne Abbott is one of the biggest reasons for getting rid of him.
8:54 am, September 19, 2008
Sham, it is because of people like you I want to see Brown remain.
Blair lied to public and Parliment and was more interested in himself and his legacy than party philosophy.
9:40 am, September 19, 2008
It's a bizarre state of mind that leads an individual to spend his life in awe of born losers and failed ideologies.
Rather you than me!
11:58 am, September 19, 2008
Oh come on Sham, you're holdiong back. What great vision do you and your like have for the Labour Party? More naive support for the market? Letting the market rule itself is a failed ideology.
Social Democracy (democratic socialism)is more relevent today than it has ever been.
I want Browm to stay because if he goes there will be calls for an election, which we will lose. The longer we forstall the election the better the chances of keeping our MPs.
Some might say you don't care if the Tories get back in, maybe you don't (you are about the same age as me so you might remember how bad they were)if this is the case we concentrate our efforts in dealing with the Tories not on who should lead us.
Fools like you are too keen to throw this country to the dogs, thankfully not all Blairites (our own Comrade Akehurst for example) are as nihilistic as you.
4:29 pm, September 19, 2008
I want Browm to stay because if he goes there will be calls for an election, which we will lose.
That's democracy for you!
The prospect of a Tory government doesn't exactly fill me with delight either, but if that is the will of the people so be it.
From a personal point of view I'd like to see Brown go so as to avoid that prospect.
Neither of us would like to see Mr Cameron in Number 10, but you seem willing to sleepwalk us into that prospect two years hence, rather than giving the Labour party the best possible opportunity to win a General Election - which would be with either Milliband, Johnson or Purnell - and even if they don't win, at least we wouldn't be annihilated.
Having two unelected Prime Ministers in a row isn't great, but, if there's a proper contest, at least the new leader will have some democratic legitimacy, even if he'll probably have to call a general election in Spring 2009 rather than Summer 2010.
In terms of a grand vision, how about a less controlling but more efficient and effective state, and how about putting taxpayers' money back into their own hands as a means of stimulating the economy? Just a thought!
9:08 pm, September 19, 2008
Both of those visions are shared by the LD's and the Tories.
What's the point of three identikit parties?
11:53 am, September 20, 2008
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